Unless you’ve been living in self-imposed social media exile for the past six months, there is a high probability you’ve witnessed the choreography of Simon Donnellon. Perhaps via the flirty, candy-hued video for PinkPantheress and Zara Larsson’s ultra-viral “Stateside (Remix),” or maybe in Alyssa Liu’s triumphant 2026 Winter Olympics performance set to the same song, which saw some of Donnellon’s catchiest moves repurposed for the ice. Over the past few years, the London-based choreographer and movement director has made a niche for himself, coaching a starry roster of alt-pop princesses to move unencumbered across stage, screen, and beyond. Speaking to his friend, writer and pop devotee Harald Smart, Donnellon shares his origin story and offers a window into the ‘Pop Girl Bootcamp’ that has helped more than one diva find her groove.

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HARALD SMART: Simon, hi!

SIMON DONNELLON: Harald, hi, how are you? 

SMART: I’m good! Excited to be talking to you. There’s so much to talk about. I wanted to ask how you got started in this field, your origin story.

DONNELLON: What’s pertinent to my job now is that I was a dancer, mostly with contemporary companies, and I graduated when it was kind of in vogue for contemporary dance to be across music projects. So I was doing music videos, dancing in them, and then I got the opportunity to choreograph one for Self Esteem. Then, I started moving a bit more into artist coaching. Back then, it wasn’t such a big thing. Now, I’d say 90% of the musicians you see performing live will have had some level of movement direction or performance coaching. 

SMART: So, what’s the distinction for you between movement direction and choreography? 

DONNELLON: With choreography, I’m creating movement steps that you will learn and repeat. Direction is much more about giving people stimuli and guiding them through stuff. That could be a character-based stimulus or asking, “What color is this song?” or “What does this song smell like?” So they can start to build a world around the song to inhabit, which would hopefully give them more room to play on stage. For me personally, my job is more about setting artists up with the tools to be able to play freely on stage with a level of comfortability.  

SMART: You worked with Romy [Madley Croft] in that capacity, right? How did that process start?

DONNELLON: Yes. Romy was super interesting because I’m a huge fan of The XX. So when that opportunity came up, I was freaking out. Her wife’s a really successful photographer and director. I’d been shooting with her and she was like, “Oh, my wife is a musician and she’s doing a solo project [2023’s Mid Air] for the first time.” 

SMART:  Did you know it was Romy at the time? 

DONNELLON: I didn’t know it was Romy.

SMART: That’s so funny. 

Simon Donnellon

DONNELLON: So, when we started working together, her refrain was, “I just want to feel more confident in moving on stage.” We would get in the dance studio and I’d set up a fake DJ deck with some ballet bars and a table top across them. At first, it was really about diving into rhythm and going back to basics. Giving Romy the tools to start to move a bit freer. I think with a lot of artists, it’s about giving them permission. Because Romy can move, but I think it was just trying to give her a new movement language to use. 

SMART: It must be amazing to watch over a period of time, watching someone blossom. 

DONNELLON: Totally. And I think some people would look at one of her shows and be like, “Oh, what is the movement direction there?” because she’s just moving freely. But actually, from where she began, now she’s running around the stage at Glastonbury. In the new XX show that just debuted at Coachella, she’s singing “Enjoy Your Life” out on the runway, which is something I think she didn’t think she was capable of. She’s always been capable of it! 

SMART: That’s quite beautiful. 

Simon Donnellon

DONNELLON: I think every person, no matter whether they’re a pop star or not, deserves the space to find what it is they do free from intense scrutiny. No one’s doing the best thing they’ve ever done straight out of the gate. I mean, some people I work with are pretty incredible straight out of the gate… PinkPantheress, for example. The music and the tone of what she’s making is so unique. 

SMART: 100%. So let’s get into that. Because I feel like every day I see a fan edit or a meme or something related to PinkPantheress and her stage presence transformation. What kind of phase she was in when you started working together and how has that relationship evolved?

DONNELLON: At the very beginning, before Fancy That, we did the videos for “Picture of My Mind” and “Capable of Love,” which were more narrative.

SMART: “Capable of Love” is incredible. 

DONNELLON: I remember when I first heard that song, I kind of couldn’t believe that she’d made something that epic.

SMART: Yeah, it’s like her version of a power ballad.

Simon Donnellon

DONNELLON: Literally. And so we’d started working together a little bit sporadically and we just got on really well. From that point on, each project had a larger choreography component, especially coming back for Fancy That. I think she’d had a bit of time off and she came back and the music was so good and she was like, “I’m ready to step into it. ” Also, she can groove. She’s got a great sense of rhythm. But I feel like at Glastonbury [2025], she switched something on on show day and we were all like, “Whoa.” That was a real moment of stepping into performance in a way that she hasn’t before. I think she’s come back to this new era and attacked it with such…

SMART: Gusto?

DONNELLON: I was trying to find a synonym for gusto!

SMART: Just say it!

DONNELLON: Gusto! Like, she wants to be eating it up on stage. She wants to be involved in everything. She’s learned so quickly and I can’t take all the credit on that. I definitely got her to a certain point, but she’s also worked with super established female choreographers as well—Charissa Kroeger, Danielle Polanco, Luam, who did the 2025 US/Australia tour. And I think having that time with them, they’ve given her this new confidence. 

SMART: It sounds like a really strong team.

DONNELLON: Yeah, it’s important to Pink that there are women across choreography. Charissa is amazing. We were able to riff off each other and find this newer thing for Coachella, which is a really big, super ambitious show.

SMART: It was so impressive, the number of elements, the storytelling. 

Simon Donnellon

DONNELLON: Totally. And it’s one of those shows that is a statement of intent because she straddles all these different things. She’s the pop girl, but she’s also making this quite alt music.

SMART: It’s also so British as well!

DONNELLON: A vast majority of the team working on the show are actually British. I think that’s been a big thing for finding the nuance and the comedy and all these bits that feel “Big Pop Show,” but also still feel very her. I think one of the other big tasks for this show was finding newness in the movement language. 

SMART: How do you approach that?

DONNELLON: For me, it’s looking at other artists that sit within the same world and what they are doing. Not to copy, but thinking about what it is they’re doing that is resonating. For example, everyone thinks of Gaga like, “Put your paws up.” But Gaga also sits in this ticking world; it’s her specific way of moving. The task for the show was trying to find something that feels very unique to PinkPantheress. What are the Pink-isms? 

SMART: And what would you say those are?

DONNELLON: Always that insane hair flip. She’s in the hips, and she’s really good at finding a mix of fluidity and staccato in the upper body. It’s finding those moments, but also what is the music saying? We still want it to feel a bit punk with a tiny injection of silliness and camp. So, it’s mixing all those things together. 

SMART: What’s been your favorite song of Pink’s to choreograph? 

DONNELLON: Ooh, I mean, I love “Tonight.” For me, it has a special place. It was the first track for her that we really choreographed. 

SMART: I remember that video dropping and everyone being like, “Oh, she’s really doing the thing.” Backing dancers, the whole nine yards. 

DONNELLON: Exactly! So seeing that, editing that into the [Coachella] show and making it bigger and more exciting, that’s been really amazing. And honestly, “Stateside.”

SMART: Oh, we’re getting to her! Tell me about your involvement with that particular song and your response to where it went. 

DONNELLON: My god, crazy. With Pink, the video scheduling is always really reactive. The energy is like, “Okay, the song’s doing well, the fans want something, let’s give their fans what they want.” I had heard someone whisper that they were thinking about a video with Zara, and I was like, “Oh my god.” Then [director] Charlotte Rutherford—who I’ve worked with a lot in tandem with PinkPantheress—called me and was like, “Okay, this is the concept.” It all came together really quickly. There was essentially one day between Pink and Zara’s schedules in which they could shoot it, and the shoot definitely felt really gag on the day. Two pop stars on the precipice of stardom. They’re both doing so unbelievably well. 

SMART: And on their own terms, as well.

DONNELLON: Absolutely, I think it was so intelligent to put both of their worlds in the video and smash them together. It was so indicative of the branding power of both campaigns. Then, to choreograph something that felt really fun and kitsch. The main reference was always “Fergalicious.” 

SMART: Oh my god, I said this. The second I saw it I was like, “This is Gen-Z ‘Fergalicious.’”

DONNELLON: Yes! Even down to how it was shot because a lot of the time things are shot on Steadicam, roaming around. But Charlotte was like, “No, I want straight-on choreo.” 

SMART: Old school. 

DONNELLON: Obviously the song was having a moment, but I don’t think anyone really expected how big it was going to go. 

SMART: How did you approach the choreo? 

DONNELLON: Sometimes Pink is a fun challenge. Often my contemporary [dance] background can be really useful to avoid it leaning too far into stereotypical pop. On Stateside, my associate choreographer, Angelica Wolańska, was super helpful. It’s really helpful to ideate with a female choreographer. The work feels more rounded. With the male dancers, we wanted to stay in this really masc place but, like, a bit camp.

SMART: Metrosexual!

DONNELLON: Yes! Charlotte sent me this reference from a Madness video where they’re walking in a particular way. At first I was like, “Whoa, that’s such an off-piste ref.” But then, in the context, those off-piste moments really work. And, obviously, all the boys falling and the room shaking when Zara hits her run—

SMART: That’s so good.  

DONNELLON: But Pink is really experienced with the music video thing now. She knows her angles. She can step on set and just own it. Also, her and Zara being together, they both lifted each other up so much. It was really nice to watch. Zara had toured the night before in Stockholm, flown in that morning. We’d sent her the choreo and we ran it through with her twice and she was like, “Got it.” Just real star energy. The whole thing was such a great experience. 

SMART: It’s heartening to hear that the mutual support is so strong and genuine. 

DONNELLON: Oh my god, totally. I think we’re in an era of female stars genuinely supporting each other.

SMART: I think another key thing is they’re being cute and sexy, but it’s not two women together who are just being sexual for the male gaze. It’s for the girls who want to get cute and look cute and hang out with their friends…And the gays, of course! 

DONNELLON: Very much so.

Simon Donnellon

SMART: What’s your favorite choreo moment from the video?

DONNELLON: I love the big tableau with Pink sitting on the guys’ shoulders and Zara laying on the floor. I was thinking about Renaissance paintings…and Gentleman Prefer Blondes!

SMART: Yes! Those moments are incredible. How did it feel to see Alyssa Liu perform parts of that choreography on the ice at the Winter Olympics?

DONNELLON: Crazy, crazy, crazy. To see something you’ve done, my little pop choreo, being performed on a stage like that even for a second…Working in this profession, you’re around a lot of famous people at work. There’s certain people that I’m starstruck by for sure, but I think with most people you have a level of professionalism, like, that’s just another person. But something about that moment was like, “Wow, okay. This is kind of crazy.” 

SMART: I feel like as a choreographer or a movement director, that must be the pinnacle.

DONNELLON: Oh, it’s gag

SMART: Where do you go from there? 

DONNELLON: I’m quite excited to get back to some fashion stuff, and then this year’s festival season. And then it’s thinking about other artists on my dream board…I would die to do Rosalía!  

 

Gang of Youths frontman David Le’aupepe has spoken to NME about the band’s first new single in four years ‘Things Take Time’ and the “philosophical freedom” that has come with writing new material for the band’s long-awaited fourth studio album.

The single marks the band’s first new original material since their acclaimed 2022 album ‘Angel In Realtime.’, and marks a significant change of pace. Rather than returning to the maximalist, big-swinging indie-rock that has shaped their previous albums, ‘Things Take Time’ opts for a refined and jazzy groove that swings atop sparse piano chords and stabs of horns.

As far as comeback singles go, it’s about as subtle and discreet as possible – as if it’s entering through a side door rather than kicking the front gate open. As Le’aupepe revealed, this has very much been done by design.

“When I wrote this song, I didn’t want too much weighing it down,” the frontman said, speaking to NME while visiting Sydney ahead of performing two sold-out shows at the famed Opera House. “I wanted the song to feel speedy and light, and we wanted that really groovy and flowing nature to shine through a little bit more. It felt really good.”

‘Angel In Realtime.’ was given four stars by NME upon its 2022 release, and described as “a triumphant exploration of love and life”. It led to the biggest shows of the band’s career, including their first-ever headlining arena shows in their native Australia and selling out Brixton Academy in the UK. After a final show in support of the record at British Summer Time with Lana Del Rey, however, Gang of Youths effectively went dark – save for the late 2023 release of ‘Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas’ for the festive season.

“We all live quiet lives,” Le’aupepe told NME. “We don’t have our own social media, or anything like that. We’re not interested in the public stuff, and I tend to require a lot of respite from the world. Having said that, we’re all kind of ready for it again now. It’s weirdly exciting.”

Gang Of Youths, 2026. Credit: Cal McIntyre
Gang Of Youths, 2026. Credit: Cal McIntyre

Check out the full interview with Le’aupepe below, where he discussed the differences between observational and emotive songwriting, the ongoing struggle with perfectionism and why Gang of Youths continually has to die in order to be reborn again.

NME: Hello Dave. Of all the new material the band has been working on, why was ‘Things Take Time’ chosen as the first single?

David Le’aupepe: “Well, the powers that be chose it – probably because it’s the shortest one! It’s a three-minute song, which is miraculous for a band like ours. It’s also a pop song, which is a form I’ve not really dabbled in much. It was a really liberating song to write – I’ve used that word so many times in interviews in the past, but in this instance it really set me free in a sense. I’m actually singing for once, too. I’ve done a lot of talking that happens to be in tune, or these grandiose fucking yells, but I haven’t really allowed my voice to be free like this before.

“One of the things I really like about the song is that, when it was finished and we listened back to it, it felt like a proper break with the past – and we were OK with that. We’ve achieved great things in the past, and we’re proud of it, but this is the thread we’re following now musically. I was delighted by that.”

What place did the song come from in a lyrical sense?

“It’s about nothing… Well, not nothing. It’s about growing plants. My wife ordered too many tomato seeds, so she went to work growing all of these tomatoes in our house. I go over to record with Tom [Hobden, Gang of Youths’ multi-instrumentalist] at his home studio, and that overlooks his back garden. His wife Emma grows all these beautiful plants in the yard. It got me fascinated with the cycle of growth and death, and being baffled that people can grow things without killing them.

“It’s funny… I feel like death and rebirth are a constant part of our subject matter. We’re always dealing with them in one way or another, so it’s kind of weird that we almost accidentally continued it – even though the song is so different for us.”

Gang of Youths perform at O2 Academy Brixton on March 15, 2022 in London, England. (Photo by Joseph Okpako/WireImage)
Gang of Youths perform at O2 Academy Brixton on March 15, 2022 in London, England. (Photo by Joseph Okpako/WireImage)

How naturally did the musical change of pace come to you? There’s fittingly a bit of a parallel with a song like ‘Tend the Garden’, but even that feels a lot bigger and more layered in comparison to ‘Things Take Time’…

“I came in with the idea one night after dinner, and played the little riff. Recorded it, played a drum part, recorded that, got Donnie [Borzestowski, Gang of Youths’ drummer] to redo it, and voilà. You hear all of us at work on this song. When Tom heard my little ‘doo doo doo’ in the verse, it was his idea to chuck in a horn arrangement to replicate them. Donnie is a world-class drummer, and doing something a bit jazzier was right in his repertoire.

“As for Jung [Kim, Gang of Youths’ guitarist/keyboardist], he always has such a deft hand. He’s always so careful, and so organised with his thoughts. I think that’s why it was funny when I finally sent in my vocal take – after doing like 400 takes, he was just like, ‘Fuck it, I don’t really need to worry about it’. Nothing came easily, but everything just made sense.”

Everything went into radio silence after ‘Angel in Realtime.’ Was there ever a period between that cycle ending and the new one beginning where you genuinely thought Gang of Youths was over?

“Of course. That happens after every album we’ve made. I sit there at the end saying ‘I’m done’, and then enough time passes and I’m up like Leo [DiCaprio] in The Wolf of Wall Street: ‘I’m not fucking leaving!’ Out of all of the cycles, ‘Angel’ was definitely the hardest. I love that album, I really do; I think it’s my best songwriting, but it was this whole family odyssey. The arena thing was so weird, too. We’re an indie rock band – we never set out to play in stadiums, especially when you look at how scrappy we were when the band started. It was just the nature of things.

“If we came back trying to be an arena-rock band? Snoozy as fuck. We’re not in that place anymore. Those songs from ‘Angel’ are everyone else’s now. They don’t really play a role in my day-to-day life, or my inner world. What ‘Things Take Time’ represents is a philosophical freedom from having to write about personal shit. I had to break this cycle of feeling like I have to make opuses that dig into the underbelly of my life every single time. I could just write songs with their own meaning, that are curious and spiritual without having to directly cost me something.”

Was it a process of realising a song could still be reflective of you without having to be very hyper-literally about you, the way a song like ‘Brothers’ was?

“The writing now is less and less about trying to find things within myself to deal with, and more and more about things that I notice and that I contemplate. The new songs are, more often than not, about something I’ve observed rather than something I’ve felt. They’re about the external. There’s another new song we played, ‘YeYu’, and that’s probably the only really personal song out of all of them. That’s a real point of difference for a songwriter like me.”

As you just mentioned, you played your first show in three years earlier this month at a small theatre 90 minutes south of Sydney, with three new songs on the setlist – including ‘Things Take Time’. What did performing on stage again mean to you?

“Loads. It renewed something in me. There was a real warmth and affection there – you always get that with regional audiences in beautiful theatres. I knew some people who were in the front row, and who said hi afterwards. People have gotten married since they last saw us, or had kids since they last saw us. It was nice to see a lot of those familiar faces, and to see how they’re existing and how life is for them now. Hell, it was just nice to see people again. Sometimes, the boredom and the monotony of playing live and touring can wear down on even the most dedicated road dog. We all felt that at the end of the last tour, so there were some nerves in coming back to it. As soon as we stepped out on stage, though, it was like, ‘this is what it’s all about. This is the point of it all’.”

That show felt like a lot of the older material was being reinvented through the lens of the new stuff. You played ‘Magnolia’ solo on electric guitar, and ‘Let Me Down Easy’ was pared back in a really subtle way. Can we expect Gang of Youths’ shows to play out a little differently now that it’s no longer a confetti-cannon arena rock show?

“We haven’t even figured that out yet. This was our first foray into really doing it again, you know? The album that we’re working on has more of a sense of just plugging in and playing – a lot of bare elements of piano, bass, drums, vocals. We want these songs to stand out by themselves, as opposed to needing loads of backing tracks running in order for them to work. That factored into the live show – could we reinvent these songs in a way that makes sense to us? It was about striking a middle ground between giving people familiarity and us not dying of boredom.”

Is the new album done?

“Nah.”

How will you know when it’s done?

“When someone tells me it’s not the worst thing I’ve ever made! With [debut album, 2015’s] ‘The Positions’, I had no clue what I was doing. I just knew we had a deadline to turn everything in. With [second album, 2017’s] ‘Go Farther in Lightness’, I was totally sure about every aspect of that album before we turned it in. All I really know about this one, so far, is that when I got back the masters for ‘Things Take Time’, it felt like I was closer to the end of the album than I was to the beginning. I’ve always cooked the goose too long, I think, and now it’s a process of learning not to.”

‘Things Take Time’ is out now. Gang of Youths will perform at All Points East in London’s Hyde Park with Twenty One Pilots on August 30 before a run of UK and European shows in November and December. Visit here for tickets and more information.

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