I've sometimes felt as though every piece of music is an exploration of our perception of time. What sparked the idea of focusing on time as the main focus for your new work?

The focus on time in this work emerged quite unconsciously.

What actually happened is that the title came last, after I received an email from John (Benedict ndr) regarding the production timeline. In the middle of that email, those two Latin words appeared, and for me, as an Italian reading them in an English context, they had an almost striking, illuminating effect.

At that point, I went back to the pieces I had written, listening again to how they had been developed and recorded, and also considering the broader time span over which the entire EP had been composed. It became clear to me that Tempo Fugit was the most fitting title to represent the work.

I've been listening to Tangerine Dream's Zeit a lot recently but that album is based on a very specific concept of time, as pioneered in the West bei Parmenides, that time does not, actually, move. What are your own reflections on time?

Time is perhaps the most objective construct that exists in nature, and yet the most paradoxical aspect of it is that it is entirely perceived in a subjective way.

At times, time seems not to pass at all; at other times, it rushes forward, or even feels as if it stops. But this sense of flow, its rhythm, its pace, is not determined by time itself, it is determined by us.

This is precisely why I see it as such a fundamentally objective dimension. It is inescapable, it is constant, and yet our perception transforms something absolutely objective into something deeply subjective.

Time is not just the medium through which music flows, it can also be a musical tool in its own right. How did you work with it for Tempo Fugit?

For this EP, I worked with time in two main ways.

On one hand, there are pieces built around a very clear and explicit temporal reference, a metronome. On the other, there are works that were recorded almost entirely without any fixed time reference. This applies both to the piano pieces and to the electronic ones.

In some tracks, the presence of a grid allows for a very precise perception of construction, almost as if the composition were being built brick by brick. In others, there is a deliberate need to remove any external reference and instead follow what I would describe as an inner sense of time.

These two approaches reflect the way I usually compose, and they are both clearly present and articulated throughout this EP.

Many contemporary composers have tried – or are still trying to make – time transparent by opting for extreme lengths. Your music, however, is quite to the point, on your earlier van Gogh EP even radically so. What is satisfying about concision for you?

I don’t usually approach composition by asking myself how long a piece should be.

When I work on immersive projects, of course, there are specific durations dictated by the storyboard. In those cases, the shorter the piece, the greater the risk of it sounding like a jingle. It becomes more difficult to preserve an emotional depth rather than just leaving behind a catchy motif.

At the same time, I find it very interesting to impose, in a way, constraints of brevity. I have written pieces that last twenty minutes or more, though they are often less suited to streaming platforms, and in some cases they have not even been officially released, as they belong to installations or more experimental contexts.

On the other hand, I also created a collection of one hundred one-minute pieces as part of a creative exercise called “100 days.” The idea was to repeat a creative act every day for one hundred consecutive days. My approach was to sit at the piano, even before having my coffee, and write exactly one minute of music.



Over time, this became a fascinating process. In the beginning, I relied on a timer, constantly checking the clock. But toward the end, I developed an internal sense of that one-minute span. Despite differences in tonality, meter, and tempo, I could almost instinctively feel when to begin and when to end each piece.

That experience taught me that duration is not something I impose from the outside, but something that can be internalized and shaped from within.

I understood that the process on Tempo Fugi was very different from piece to piece, with some finished quickly while others taking a lot of time. What is it about some works, do you feel, that makes them harder to nail down – how would you describe the sensation that something is “done”?

In this case, it was not really about how long it took to finish each piece. The tracks were written at different times, sometimes even years apart.

What happened later, when I listened back to them, was that I felt the need to create a stronger sense of cohesion across the EP. By “cohesion,” I mean introducing elements that could give more consistency to the role each track plays within the overall narrative.

So I revisited older demos that had been sitting in my archive for quite some time, pieces I still considered valid, and approached them almost as a form of rearrangement within the context of the EP. It was not about struggling to complete a piece, but rather about shaping it so that it could fully belong to this specific body of work.

For me, a piece is finished when I feel a strong coherence in the message I want to convey, when every sound has found its place, and when the musical discourse flows naturally and feels complete. It is not something I can define in purely rational terms. It is, above all, a sensation.

Since the process for Tempo Fugit was quite extensive, were there possibly overlaps between tracks composed for this project and the Van Gogh show? If so, how similar do pieces composed at the same time but for different projects tend to be?

There was no overlap. The music for the Van Gogh project we are referring to was written before the pandemic, whereas the material for Tempo Fugit dates back, at most, to about two or three years ago.

If we talk about similarities between pieces, I would distinguish between two different aspects.

From a purely musical perspective, meaning harmony and melody, it is actually more likely for similarities to emerge over time rather than within the same period. When you develop a certain awareness in your musical language, it naturally creates a kind of continuity, almost like a diary of melodic and harmonic ideas that evolves over the years.

On the other hand, pieces written within the same timeframe may resemble each other more from a sound design perspective. For example, if you are exploring a particular instrument, a specific synthesizer, a new effect, or even a certain way of miking the piano, these elements can shape the sonic identity of multiple pieces. Even choices like register or tonality can be influenced by those explorations.

So, if there is a form of resemblance within the same period, it is more likely to emerge from the sound and the tools being used, rather than from the underlying musical writing itself.

The release opens with a piece called “Repetition,” which called to mind a sentence by Ryoko Sekiguchi: “Time doesn’t pass, it returns.” How do you see that yourself – and how do you use repetition and variation in your work?

I see repetition as a beautiful form of communication, where the reiteration of an idea actually allows that idea to emerge more clearly.

The presence of a pattern becomes almost a kind of subtle game with rationality, with perception, with the listener’s intelligence. It invites a process of recognition, almost like solving a riddle.

This is what I find particularly compelling about minimalism. An idea is explored, listened to, gradually exhausted, then transformed, and the cycle begins again.

Since one part of the project seems to have been to use music to capture specific moments in time – how do you see the relationship between the moment and the music created in it? Quite often, sad music gets written in happy times of an artist's life and vice versa, so it seems like a complex relationship.

I agree that it is a complex relationship, and I would even extend it beyond the idea of writing sad music in happy times, or happy music in sad ones, as a way of balancing or compensating.

For me, it also involves the relationship with instruments. My work moves between acoustic instruments, like the piano, and more electronic forms of production, and I often experience this dialogue between emotional states and sound through them.

For instance, I might be drawn to more experimental electronic instruments during a more rational phase, while in a more instinctive or emotional moment I might turn to something structurally more defined, like the piano. In this sense, the contrast or interplay between different emotional states becomes symbiotic with the choice of instruments.

So yes, I would definitely describe this relationship as complex, but also deeply fascinating.

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Luca Longobardi Interview Image (c) the artist
 

“I see repetition as a beautiful form of communication, where the reiteration of an idea actually allows that idea to emerge more clearly.“
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Unless you’ve been living in self-imposed social media exile for the past six months, there is a high probability you’ve witnessed the choreography of Simon Donnellon. Perhaps via the flirty, candy-hued video for PinkPantheress and Zara Larsson’s ultra-viral “Stateside (Remix),” or maybe in Alyssa Liu’s triumphant 2026 Winter Olympics performance set to the same song, which saw some of Donnellon’s catchiest moves repurposed for the ice. Over the past few years, the London-based choreographer and movement director has made a niche for himself, coaching a starry roster of alt-pop princesses to move unencumbered across stage, screen, and beyond. Speaking to his friend, writer and pop devotee Harald Smart, Donnellon shares his origin story and offers a window into the ‘Pop Girl Bootcamp’ that has helped more than one diva find her groove.

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HARALD SMART: Simon, hi!

SIMON DONNELLON: Harald, hi, how are you? 

SMART: I’m good! Excited to be talking to you. There’s so much to talk about. I wanted to ask how you got started in this field, your origin story.

DONNELLON: What’s pertinent to my job now is that I was a dancer, mostly with contemporary companies, and I graduated when it was kind of in vogue for contemporary dance to be across music projects. So I was doing music videos, dancing in them, and then I got the opportunity to choreograph one for Self Esteem. Then, I started moving a bit more into artist coaching. Back then, it wasn’t such a big thing. Now, I’d say 90% of the musicians you see performing live will have had some level of movement direction or performance coaching. 

SMART: So, what’s the distinction for you between movement direction and choreography? 

DONNELLON: With choreography, I’m creating movement steps that you will learn and repeat. Direction is much more about giving people stimuli and guiding them through stuff. That could be a character-based stimulus or asking, “What color is this song?” or “What does this song smell like?” So they can start to build a world around the song to inhabit, which would hopefully give them more room to play on stage. For me personally, my job is more about setting artists up with the tools to be able to play freely on stage with a level of comfortability.  

SMART: You worked with Romy [Madley Croft] in that capacity, right? How did that process start?

DONNELLON: Yes. Romy was super interesting because I’m a huge fan of The XX. So when that opportunity came up, I was freaking out. Her wife’s a really successful photographer and director. I’d been shooting with her and she was like, “Oh, my wife is a musician and she’s doing a solo project [2023’s Mid Air] for the first time.” 

SMART:  Did you know it was Romy at the time? 

DONNELLON: I didn’t know it was Romy.

SMART: That’s so funny. 

Simon Donnellon

DONNELLON: So, when we started working together, her refrain was, “I just want to feel more confident in moving on stage.” We would get in the dance studio and I’d set up a fake DJ deck with some ballet bars and a table top across them. At first, it was really about diving into rhythm and going back to basics. Giving Romy the tools to start to move a bit freer. I think with a lot of artists, it’s about giving them permission. Because Romy can move, but I think it was just trying to give her a new movement language to use. 

SMART: It must be amazing to watch over a period of time, watching someone blossom. 

DONNELLON: Totally. And I think some people would look at one of her shows and be like, “Oh, what is the movement direction there?” because she’s just moving freely. But actually, from where she began, now she’s running around the stage at Glastonbury. In the new XX show that just debuted at Coachella, she’s singing “Enjoy Your Life” out on the runway, which is something I think she didn’t think she was capable of. She’s always been capable of it! 

SMART: That’s quite beautiful. 

Simon Donnellon

DONNELLON: I think every person, no matter whether they’re a pop star or not, deserves the space to find what it is they do free from intense scrutiny. No one’s doing the best thing they’ve ever done straight out of the gate. I mean, some people I work with are pretty incredible straight out of the gate… PinkPantheress, for example. The music and the tone of what she’s making is so unique. 

SMART: 100%. So let’s get into that. Because I feel like every day I see a fan edit or a meme or something related to PinkPantheress and her stage presence transformation. What kind of phase she was in when you started working together and how has that relationship evolved?

DONNELLON: At the very beginning, before Fancy That, we did the videos for “Picture of My Mind” and “Capable of Love,” which were more narrative.

SMART: “Capable of Love” is incredible. 

DONNELLON: I remember when I first heard that song, I kind of couldn’t believe that she’d made something that epic.

SMART: Yeah, it’s like her version of a power ballad.

Simon Donnellon

DONNELLON: Literally. And so we’d started working together a little bit sporadically and we just got on really well. From that point on, each project had a larger choreography component, especially coming back for Fancy That. I think she’d had a bit of time off and she came back and the music was so good and she was like, “I’m ready to step into it. ” Also, she can groove. She’s got a great sense of rhythm. But I feel like at Glastonbury [2025], she switched something on on show day and we were all like, “Whoa.” That was a real moment of stepping into performance in a way that she hasn’t before. I think she’s come back to this new era and attacked it with such…

SMART: Gusto?

DONNELLON: I was trying to find a synonym for gusto!

SMART: Just say it!

DONNELLON: Gusto! Like, she wants to be eating it up on stage. She wants to be involved in everything. She’s learned so quickly and I can’t take all the credit on that. I definitely got her to a certain point, but she’s also worked with super established female choreographers as well—Charissa Kroeger, Danielle Polanco, Luam, who did the 2025 US/Australia tour. And I think having that time with them, they’ve given her this new confidence. 

SMART: It sounds like a really strong team.

DONNELLON: Yeah, it’s important to Pink that there are women across choreography. Charissa is amazing. We were able to riff off each other and find this newer thing for Coachella, which is a really big, super ambitious show.

SMART: It was so impressive, the number of elements, the storytelling. 

Simon Donnellon

DONNELLON: Totally. And it’s one of those shows that is a statement of intent because she straddles all these different things. She’s the pop girl, but she’s also making this quite alt music.

SMART: It’s also so British as well!

DONNELLON: A vast majority of the team working on the show are actually British. I think that’s been a big thing for finding the nuance and the comedy and all these bits that feel “Big Pop Show,” but also still feel very her. I think one of the other big tasks for this show was finding newness in the movement language. 

SMART: How do you approach that?

DONNELLON: For me, it’s looking at other artists that sit within the same world and what they are doing. Not to copy, but thinking about what it is they’re doing that is resonating. For example, everyone thinks of Gaga like, “Put your paws up.” But Gaga also sits in this ticking world; it’s her specific way of moving. The task for the show was trying to find something that feels very unique to PinkPantheress. What are the Pink-isms? 

SMART: And what would you say those are?

DONNELLON: Always that insane hair flip. She’s in the hips, and she’s really good at finding a mix of fluidity and staccato in the upper body. It’s finding those moments, but also what is the music saying? We still want it to feel a bit punk with a tiny injection of silliness and camp. So, it’s mixing all those things together. 

SMART: What’s been your favorite song of Pink’s to choreograph? 

DONNELLON: Ooh, I mean, I love “Tonight.” For me, it has a special place. It was the first track for her that we really choreographed. 

SMART: I remember that video dropping and everyone being like, “Oh, she’s really doing the thing.” Backing dancers, the whole nine yards. 

DONNELLON: Exactly! So seeing that, editing that into the [Coachella] show and making it bigger and more exciting, that’s been really amazing. And honestly, “Stateside.”

SMART: Oh, we’re getting to her! Tell me about your involvement with that particular song and your response to where it went. 

DONNELLON: My god, crazy. With Pink, the video scheduling is always really reactive. The energy is like, “Okay, the song’s doing well, the fans want something, let’s give their fans what they want.” I had heard someone whisper that they were thinking about a video with Zara, and I was like, “Oh my god.” Then [director] Charlotte Rutherford—who I’ve worked with a lot in tandem with PinkPantheress—called me and was like, “Okay, this is the concept.” It all came together really quickly. There was essentially one day between Pink and Zara’s schedules in which they could shoot it, and the shoot definitely felt really gag on the day. Two pop stars on the precipice of stardom. They’re both doing so unbelievably well. 

SMART: And on their own terms, as well.

DONNELLON: Absolutely, I think it was so intelligent to put both of their worlds in the video and smash them together. It was so indicative of the branding power of both campaigns. Then, to choreograph something that felt really fun and kitsch. The main reference was always “Fergalicious.” 

SMART: Oh my god, I said this. The second I saw it I was like, “This is Gen-Z ‘Fergalicious.’”

DONNELLON: Yes! Even down to how it was shot because a lot of the time things are shot on Steadicam, roaming around. But Charlotte was like, “No, I want straight-on choreo.” 

SMART: Old school. 

DONNELLON: Obviously the song was having a moment, but I don’t think anyone really expected how big it was going to go. 

SMART: How did you approach the choreo? 

DONNELLON: Sometimes Pink is a fun challenge. Often my contemporary [dance] background can be really useful to avoid it leaning too far into stereotypical pop. On Stateside, my associate choreographer, Angelica Wolańska, was super helpful. It’s really helpful to ideate with a female choreographer. The work feels more rounded. With the male dancers, we wanted to stay in this really masc place but, like, a bit camp.

SMART: Metrosexual!

DONNELLON: Yes! Charlotte sent me this reference from a Madness video where they’re walking in a particular way. At first I was like, “Whoa, that’s such an off-piste ref.” But then, in the context, those off-piste moments really work. And, obviously, all the boys falling and the room shaking when Zara hits her run—

SMART: That’s so good.  

DONNELLON: But Pink is really experienced with the music video thing now. She knows her angles. She can step on set and just own it. Also, her and Zara being together, they both lifted each other up so much. It was really nice to watch. Zara had toured the night before in Stockholm, flown in that morning. We’d sent her the choreo and we ran it through with her twice and she was like, “Got it.” Just real star energy. The whole thing was such a great experience. 

SMART: It’s heartening to hear that the mutual support is so strong and genuine. 

DONNELLON: Oh my god, totally. I think we’re in an era of female stars genuinely supporting each other.

SMART: I think another key thing is they’re being cute and sexy, but it’s not two women together who are just being sexual for the male gaze. It’s for the girls who want to get cute and look cute and hang out with their friends…And the gays, of course! 

DONNELLON: Very much so.

Simon Donnellon

SMART: What’s your favorite choreo moment from the video?

DONNELLON: I love the big tableau with Pink sitting on the guys’ shoulders and Zara laying on the floor. I was thinking about Renaissance paintings…and Gentleman Prefer Blondes!

SMART: Yes! Those moments are incredible. How did it feel to see Alyssa Liu perform parts of that choreography on the ice at the Winter Olympics?

DONNELLON: Crazy, crazy, crazy. To see something you’ve done, my little pop choreo, being performed on a stage like that even for a second…Working in this profession, you’re around a lot of famous people at work. There’s certain people that I’m starstruck by for sure, but I think with most people you have a level of professionalism, like, that’s just another person. But something about that moment was like, “Wow, okay. This is kind of crazy.” 

SMART: I feel like as a choreographer or a movement director, that must be the pinnacle.

DONNELLON: Oh, it’s gag

SMART: Where do you go from there? 

DONNELLON: I’m quite excited to get back to some fashion stuff, and then this year’s festival season. And then it’s thinking about other artists on my dream board…I would die to do Rosalía!  

 
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