NEWS
Aaron Dessner and Taylor Swift at the 63rd annual Grammy Awards in L.A. on March 14, 2021.
Francis Specker/CBS via Getty"Renegade," one of the new Big Red Machine songs featuring Taylor Swift off the band's upcoming album, dropped early Friday (July 2), and the group's Aaron Dessner couldn't be happier about collaborating once again with her. In an interview with Apple Music's Zane Lowe, Dessner shared, "This song, 'Renegade,' it's as good as anything we've made together."
"I think whatever wildfire happened last year creatively for Taylor and I ... we didn't want to stop writing songs together, and still don't, really," he said of working with the 11-time Grammy winner. Dessner previously co-wrote and co-produced Swift's 2020 albums Folklore and Evermore, while Bon Iver's Justin Vernon -- the other half of Big Red Machine -- co-wrote "Exile" from Folklore and Evermore's title track. "It's kind of like somehow I ended up on the team with the best player, so you just want to keep passing the ball to her."
Dessner shared that he and Vernon were "pretty far along" on their songs for upcoming album, How Long Do You Think It's Gonna Last?, when he shared their work with Swift. "She was really inspired by them," he noted.
As for how "Renegade" came along, Dessner revealed that it came about after they finished working on Evermore. "She wrote 'Renegade,' and it was just like, again, getting hit by a bolt of lightning or something," he shared. Dessner elaborated on the song and how he felt when he listened to it. "I, emotionally, was really struck by the first time I heard it, just the way she talks about how anxiety and fear get in the way of loving someone or create an inability for someone to love. And I think it's incredibly relatable, but it's expressed in the context of this fairly experimental sound world."
"You've come a long way, open the blinds, let me see your face/ You wouldn’t be the first renegade, to need somebody/ Is it insensitive for me to say, 'Get your s--- together so I can love you?" Swift and Vernon sing on the chorus. "Is it really your anxiety that stops you from giving me everything?/ Or do you just not want to?"
"I kind of hope we never stopped writing songs together because it's so fun and so illuminating all the time," he later said.
Dessner also heaped praise on his co-writer during his chat with Lowe. "When you get a chance to work with someone like her, she's just ... she's a savant and just this incredibly hardworking and wonderful person," he shared. "Every time we write a song together, we both sort of are a little dumbfounded by it. Or sort of like, 'How is this possible,' because it feels like the shoe fits so well somehow."
Dessner, who is also a member of rock band The National, teased Swift's appearance on their track "Birch" as well, calling the tune "really, really stunning." He explained, "She sings and is a big part of [it] with Justin. ... Justin sort of leads the charge, but she's a huge part of it, and it's a duet, then."
Swift isn't the only artist who will be appearing on the band's upcoming 15-track album. "It's just so many people that I've worked with in the past and close friends," shared Dessner, naming Sharon Van Etten, Ben Howard, Anais Mitchell, and Fleet Foxes' Robin Pecknold as some of them. "It's a really open door-type project where it feels like there's 29 musicians who play on it," he explained. "I'm really excited about it. I feel really, really lucky."
How Long Do You Think It's Gonna Last? is set to arrive Aug. 27. Listen to Dessner's interview -- in which he also discusses Swift's Easter eggs and fans -- and check out "Renegade" below.
NEWS
Massive Attack have been using their latest live show to challenge American data analytics and software company Palantir, with the band describing the firm's ambitions as "terrifying".
The pioneering trip hop group have woven criticism of the controversial surveillance technology company into their new stage production. During their upcoming performance at Primavera Sound, they plan to deploy "custom-made facial recognition software" capable of "scanning a 75,000-person crowd" and projecting audience members onto giant screens with tongue in cheek labels such as "11 weeks no time off, burnout" and "unfinished books", according to Novara Media.
Speaking with the publication, the visual concept takes direct aim at Palantir, the company established two decades ago by billionaire Peter Thiel. Backed financially by the CIA, the firm counts the US and Israeli militaries, ICE, the FBI and the NHS among its clients.
After unveiling the production in Helsinki, Robert Del Naja told Novara Media that he wanted audiences to better understand how Palantir's reach has expanded from supplying "kill chain tech" reportedly used in Gaza to now having access to the medical records of people across Britain.
"We really need a much wider debate on the suitability of a company like this having such capture of our societal infrastructure," he said. He explained that the criticism is embedded throughout Massive Attack's two hour performance and was developed alongside long time collaborator Adam Curtis and London art collective United Visual Artists.
"One visual element represents how a Palantir Gotham monitoring and ‘decision chain’ interface might look," Del Naja explained. "Using facial recognition technology, it lands on groups and individuals – implying a consequential outcome for a given target."
Novara Media also detailed how Palantir's software can connect information from multiple databases. The outlet reported that ICE allegedly combines the platform with body camera footage, social media data and information gathered through Israeli developed hacking software Paragon to identify protesters involved in resistance to immigration raids.
The publication further claimed that Palantir contributes to Maven, a software platform used by the US military, which has recently faced criticism after being linked to the bombing of a girls' school in Iran.
"I find their declarations, objectives and moral framing pretty terrifying," Del Naja said. "To enable AI systems to map police records, satellite tracked locations, health records and personal financial transactions and place all of that information – for the first time – into the hands of a company with an overt political agenda and social objectives of its own is a huge, potentially irreversible and dangerous overreach."
Another moment in Massive Attack's current live production appears during the closing section of "Girl I Love You", when a quote from Peter Thiel is projected on screen reading: "I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible".
Last year, Massive Attack introduced the satirical "facial recognition" sequence during their concerts and quickly rejected suggestions that genuine data recognition systems were being used on audiences.
"No Massive Attack live show has ever recorded or stored personal data," the group stated. "Only government departments, relevant authorities & approved contractors can access public databases in the UK, & doing so in multiple cities/countries would be impossible."
The band also pointed to the growing use of facial recognition technology across Britain, arguing that authorities are "overreaching almost all other western democracies with their use of public facial recognition … while there is no specific legislation regulating police use of these systems."
The statement arrived shortly after Massive Attack welcomed Kneecap onto the stage during their major show at the OVO Wembley Arena, introducing them as a group "who refused to be silenced for their solidarity with the Palestinian people."
Massive Attack have consistently spoken out in support of Palestine and a range of other progressive causes. More recently, they pledged to boycott Spotify following reports that CEO Daniel Ek had invested heavily "in a company producing military munition drones and AI technology integrated into fighter aircraft."
During their headline appearance at London's LIDO Festival last summer, the band were joined by actor and activist Khalid Abdalla along with Yasiin Bey, formerly known as Mos Def. Earlier this year, Del Naja also criticised what he described as a "draconian government" after being arrested while protesting the ban on Palestine Action.
The musician was one of hundreds of demonstrators who gathered in Trafalgar Square on April 11 to oppose the Palestine Action ban. He carried a placard stating "I Oppose Genocide, I Support Palestine Action".
Police removed him from the protest and arrested him on suspicion of expressing support for a proscribed organisation. He later responded with an extensive statement posted to Instagram.
Back in February, the band revealed a small run of European dates for the summer. The tour began on May 27 at Veikkaus Arena in Helsinki before continuing to Dalhalla in Rättvik on May 30.
The Bristol trip hop pioneers have not released new material since the 2020 EP "Eutopia". Their most recent studio album remains 2010's "Heligoland".
Speaking with NME in 2024, Robert Del Naja revealed that the band had "some new music which we've been sitting on for four years". He later shared in November that he hoped to finally release some of that material in 2026.
