ON THE RISE
Gang of Youths frontman David Le’aupepe has spoken to NME about the band’s first new single in four years ‘Things Take Time’ and the “philosophical freedom” that has come with writing new material for the band’s long-awaited fourth studio album.
The single marks the band’s first new original material since their acclaimed 2022 album ‘Angel In Realtime.’, and marks a significant change of pace. Rather than returning to the maximalist, big-swinging indie-rock that has shaped their previous albums, ‘Things Take Time’ opts for a refined and jazzy groove that swings atop sparse piano chords and stabs of horns.
As far as comeback singles go, it’s about as subtle and discreet as possible – as if it’s entering through a side door rather than kicking the front gate open. As Le’aupepe revealed, this has very much been done by design.
‘Angel In Realtime.’ was given four stars by NME upon its 2022 release, and described as “a triumphant exploration of love and life”. It led to the biggest shows of the band’s career, including their first-ever headlining arena shows in their native Australia and selling out Brixton Academy in the UK. After a final show in support of the record at British Summer Time with Lana Del Rey, however, Gang of Youths effectively went dark – save for the late 2023 release of ‘Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas’ for the festive season.
“We all live quiet lives,” Le’aupepe told NME. “We don’t have our own social media, or anything like that. We’re not interested in the public stuff, and I tend to require a lot of respite from the world. Having said that, we’re all kind of ready for it again now. It’s weirdly exciting.”
Check out the full interview with Le’aupepe below, where he discussed the differences between observational and emotive songwriting, the ongoing struggle with perfectionism and why Gang of Youths continually has to die in order to be reborn again.
NME: Hello Dave. Of all the new material the band has been working on, why was ‘Things Take Time’ chosen as the first single?
David Le’aupepe: “Well, the powers that be chose it – probably because it’s the shortest one! It’s a three-minute song, which is miraculous for a band like ours. It’s also a pop song, which is a form I’ve not really dabbled in much. It was a really liberating song to write – I’ve used that word so many times in interviews in the past, but in this instance it really set me free in a sense. I’m actually singing for once, too. I’ve done a lot of talking that happens to be in tune, or these grandiose fucking yells, but I haven’t really allowed my voice to be free like this before.
“One of the things I really like about the song is that, when it was finished and we listened back to it, it felt like a proper break with the past – and we were OK with that. We’ve achieved great things in the past, and we’re proud of it, but this is the thread we’re following now musically. I was delighted by that.”
What place did the song come from in a lyrical sense?
“It’s about nothing… Well, not nothing. It’s about growing plants. My wife ordered too many tomato seeds, so she went to work growing all of these tomatoes in our house. I go over to record with Tom [Hobden, Gang of Youths’ multi-instrumentalist] at his home studio, and that overlooks his back garden. His wife Emma grows all these beautiful plants in the yard. It got me fascinated with the cycle of growth and death, and being baffled that people can grow things without killing them.
“It’s funny… I feel like death and rebirth are a constant part of our subject matter. We’re always dealing with them in one way or another, so it’s kind of weird that we almost accidentally continued it – even though the song is so different for us.”
How naturally did the musical change of pace come to you? There’s fittingly a bit of a parallel with a song like ‘Tend the Garden’, but even that feels a lot bigger and more layered in comparison to ‘Things Take Time’…
“I came in with the idea one night after dinner, and played the little riff. Recorded it, played a drum part, recorded that, got Donnie [Borzestowski, Gang of Youths’ drummer] to redo it, and voilà. You hear all of us at work on this song. When Tom heard my little ‘doo doo doo’ in the verse, it was his idea to chuck in a horn arrangement to replicate them. Donnie is a world-class drummer, and doing something a bit jazzier was right in his repertoire.
“As for Jung [Kim, Gang of Youths’ guitarist/keyboardist], he always has such a deft hand. He’s always so careful, and so organised with his thoughts. I think that’s why it was funny when I finally sent in my vocal take – after doing like 400 takes, he was just like, ‘Fuck it, I don’t really need to worry about it’. Nothing came easily, but everything just made sense.”
Everything went into radio silence after ‘Angel in Realtime.’ Was there ever a period between that cycle ending and the new one beginning where you genuinely thought Gang of Youths was over?
“Of course. That happens after every album we’ve made. I sit there at the end saying ‘I’m done’, and then enough time passes and I’m up like Leo [DiCaprio] in The Wolf of Wall Street: ‘I’m not fucking leaving!’ Out of all of the cycles, ‘Angel’ was definitely the hardest. I love that album, I really do; I think it’s my best songwriting, but it was this whole family odyssey. The arena thing was so weird, too. We’re an indie rock band – we never set out to play in stadiums, especially when you look at how scrappy we were when the band started. It was just the nature of things.
“If we came back trying to be an arena-rock band? Snoozy as fuck. We’re not in that place anymore. Those songs from ‘Angel’ are everyone else’s now. They don’t really play a role in my day-to-day life, or my inner world. What ‘Things Take Time’ represents is a philosophical freedom from having to write about personal shit. I had to break this cycle of feeling like I have to make opuses that dig into the underbelly of my life every single time. I could just write songs with their own meaning, that are curious and spiritual without having to directly cost me something.”
Was it a process of realising a song could still be reflective of you without having to be very hyper-literally about you, the way a song like ‘Brothers’ was?
“The writing now is less and less about trying to find things within myself to deal with, and more and more about things that I notice and that I contemplate. The new songs are, more often than not, about something I’ve observed rather than something I’ve felt. They’re about the external. There’s another new song we played, ‘YeYu’, and that’s probably the only really personal song out of all of them. That’s a real point of difference for a songwriter like me.”
As you just mentioned, you played your first show in three years earlier this month at a small theatre 90 minutes south of Sydney, with three new songs on the setlist – including ‘Things Take Time’. What did performing on stage again mean to you?
“Loads. It renewed something in me. There was a real warmth and affection there – you always get that with regional audiences in beautiful theatres. I knew some people who were in the front row, and who said hi afterwards. People have gotten married since they last saw us, or had kids since they last saw us. It was nice to see a lot of those familiar faces, and to see how they’re existing and how life is for them now. Hell, it was just nice to see people again. Sometimes, the boredom and the monotony of playing live and touring can wear down on even the most dedicated road dog. We all felt that at the end of the last tour, so there were some nerves in coming back to it. As soon as we stepped out on stage, though, it was like, ‘this is what it’s all about. This is the point of it all’.”
That show felt like a lot of the older material was being reinvented through the lens of the new stuff. You played ‘Magnolia’ solo on electric guitar, and ‘Let Me Down Easy’ was pared back in a really subtle way. Can we expect Gang of Youths’ shows to play out a little differently now that it’s no longer a confetti-cannon arena rock show?
“We haven’t even figured that out yet. This was our first foray into really doing it again, you know? The album that we’re working on has more of a sense of just plugging in and playing – a lot of bare elements of piano, bass, drums, vocals. We want these songs to stand out by themselves, as opposed to needing loads of backing tracks running in order for them to work. That factored into the live show – could we reinvent these songs in a way that makes sense to us? It was about striking a middle ground between giving people familiarity and us not dying of boredom.”
Is the new album done?
“Nah.”
How will you know when it’s done?
“When someone tells me it’s not the worst thing I’ve ever made! With [debut album, 2015’s] ‘The Positions’, I had no clue what I was doing. I just knew we had a deadline to turn everything in. With [second album, 2017’s] ‘Go Farther in Lightness’, I was totally sure about every aspect of that album before we turned it in. All I really know about this one, so far, is that when I got back the masters for ‘Things Take Time’, it felt like I was closer to the end of the album than I was to the beginning. I’ve always cooked the goose too long, I think, and now it’s a process of learning not to.”
‘Things Take Time’ is out now. Gang of Youths will perform at All Points East in London’s Hyde Park with Twenty One Pilots on August 30 before a run of UK and European shows in November and December. Visit here for tickets and more information.
ON THE RISE
Bats tucked inside jackets, cats secretly brought into gigs in tote bags, and unexpected run ins with bikers hoping to take them away for a night out. It is safe to say that Boy Harsher have experienced their fair share of bizarre moments while touring. For Jae Matthews and Augustus Muller, though, these unusual encounters have become part of the job. The darkwave duo have spent years crafting haunting music driven by heavy synths, building a loyal community of equally unconventional fans along the way. This autumn, they returned with GET MEAN, their latest album, which has excited longtime listeners and attracted a whole new wave of fans. The release also marks their first major album tour since ending their relationship in 2024. Interestingly, their separation appears to have brought their musical partnership closer together, although learning to share the stage again was not always easy. “That was really a learn by fire situation,” Matthews says, remembering their first performances following the breakup. “I cried every day. But now we really have a system figured out.” Speaking from Eugene, Oregon, the two musicians discussed the challenges of touring after a breakup, emotional moments behind the scenes, and their late night McDonalds runs.
EMILY SANDSTROM: How has the response to the new album been?
JAE MATTHEWS: I think good. Gus is doing the thing where he is not in view, so he is just making funny faces at me. How has the response been, Gus?
GUS MULLER: I’m really trying not to read the comments, but it’s been fun to play live.
SANDSTROM: Do you get a lot of hate comments?
MULLER: Not reading the comments, so I wouldn’t know if they’re happy or sad.
MATTHEWS: I mean, people really love to scrutinize women in particular. So I’ve received a lot of interesting noise, but no one says jack shit about what Gus looks like. Gus said he couldn’t take it if they did.
SANDSTROM: That’s funny. But yeah, that’s a real thing.
MATTHEWS: Yeah. But generally, Gus is correct. I don’t want to read much about the album, but we’ve been playing these shows that have been nuts and people are singing along to the new material. And then, because the vibe has been so pleasant, sometimes I’ll go out and say hi to a couple people. I’m like, “Yeah, fuck it. I want to go out and say hi and take a couple selfies or whatever.”
SANDSTROM: Has that come back to bite you at all? Has anything weird happened or has anyone been kind of crazy?
MATTHEWS: I think the craziness is the fact that we have developed systems that generate complete neurosocial relationships and a lot of fandom now is circled around knowing the star intimately. So I think people meet me and they think they know me. They think they understand who I am, and that feels strange. I’m like, “I love that you love my music and I love that you support me, but I also need this boundary because you don’t know who I am.” I don’t have a stalker, which I am thankful for. But I sometimes definitely go wacky bananas. I almost got on a motorcycle in Macedonia because a fan was like, “You ever been on a crotch rocket? Let’s go.”
SANDSTROM: Wait, you should have gone.
MATTHEWS: My tour manager was like, “Jae, if you get on that bike, we won’t be able to trace you. You won’t have data. You potentially will be kidnapped.” I should have gone on the bike though.
SANDSTROM: Another bike will appear. What’s been your favorite stop thus far and least favorite stop, and why?
MATTHEWS: I think that we’re going to probably be sweet about our least favorite, because a musician once was asked, “Who do you think is the most overrated band right now?” And they said us, and it really fucking hurt my feelings. So now, I’ll never answer a question like that. But honestly, Denver and Detroit rocked it so insanely hard in ways that I was on stage taken aback. Denver is nuts too because it sold out really quickly, and people were in their element. There’s a lot of discourse on cell phone usage at shows, and I will say that if you have your phone down and you’re just dancing, I know that you’re embodying my music and that is the coolest thing to witness.
SANDSTROM: Do you feel like the crowd has changed a lot on this record? What does the average Boy Harsher fan look like now?
MATTHEWS: I think that crowds in general have changed a lot, period, not just for Boy Harsher. We’ve been very, very thankful to have a strong gothic community because they’re always fun and they look good. I wonder sometimes if there are more people who are accessing our music and being like, “Who are they?” But I’m never going to be mean or rude about that. The dream is to have everyone who wants to hear it and enjoys hearing it have access to my songs. I actually don’t think I’ve noticed, in terms of the crowd, different types of people, but I’m going to think about that right now.
SANDSTROM: What’s the weirdest thing you’ve seen someone bring into a show?
MATTHEWS: This one’s kind of easy for me because it’s also one of my favorite shows ever. We played Kyiv several years ago at this amazing club. I was outside before or after our set and there was this strange Ukrainian gothic person sitting there. They’re like, “Oh, they won’t let me come into your show because I brought my pet.” And I was like, “What? You brought your pet?” And they opened their jacket and they had a little bat.
SANDSTROM: Oh, no. I hate that so much.
MATTHEWS: Honestly, it was so cute though. I mean, I was worried. I was like, “Your bat definitely doesn’t want to go into a loud music show. They use sonar.” That would be awful.
SANDSTROM: I didn’t even know you could carry bats around like that. I thought they had more agency.
MATTHEWS: Maybe this bat was really needy and attached to them and it was a parental thing. It has come to a Boy Harsher show. Do you have any?
MULLER: Yeah, we did a record signing the other day and someone took their cat out of their tote bag to say hi.
SANDSTROM: Oh, no. Was it on a leash?
MULLER: It was just chilling. It was very polite.
MATTHEWS: It was on a figurative and a physical leash, for sure.
SANDSTROM: Wow, interesting. Do you guys have rituals before you play shows?
MULLER: I don’t, but I’m trying to. I’m playing guitar on this tour. I’ve been trying to warm up on guitar. Jae is just belting in the green room.
MATTHEWS: Yeah. I shut down the green room one hour before stage time where I’m allowed to be alone. I’m very, very social and people want to come into the green room to be like, “What’s up?,” and I can’t say no. I want to see them too. So I have to lock the door, have my TM be like, “Shh.” That hour is my hour to have my anxiety. I do my vocal warmups. I do my makeup most of the time. I’ll finally put the clothes on that I have to wear on stage. I obsessively read my lyrics because my number one nightmare is forgetting lyrics. Sometimes it helps, but a lot of times it just makes me more nervous.
SANDSTROM: Has anything gone wrong on stage yet or has there been a big mix-up?
MATTHEWS: On this tour, it’s been very good, hyper-professional. It’s almost as if we’ve been doing it now for over 10 years and we’re finally starting to figure it out.
SANDSTROM: What’s the worst thing that’s happened at a show?
MATTHEWS: This is my classic story. I fucked up big time at this huge gothic festival in Leipzig called Wave-Gotik-Treffen. Every single goth in Germany has their journey to Leipzig to go to the show, and it’s the first time we ever played in Germany. It felt like the pressure was really high. We roll up late because we’re coming from Berlin. I don’t eat. I just start drinking gin or something crazy, so I’m drunk, mistake number one. I walk onto stage. I don’t do my monitor mix because the sound engineer was like, “People will think it’s starting.” So I’m walking into a foreign monitor mix, and our set begins, and I am almost immediately totally lost. I rely on being able to hear the track in order to know where I sing. We were trying out a new song, a song that eventually was called “L.A.,” and I just messed it up completely. Then I started crying in front of everyone and I ran off stage. And I remember opening the curtains being like, “I got to get out of here.” My manager runs back and he’s like, “Please, please just go on stage, do ‘Pain.’ That is why they came here. Do ‘Pain’ and then you’ll be done.” I did “Pain,” but I was definitely blubbering a little bit. I swear to fucking god, I still run into Germans who are like, “I was there. I saw you cry on stage.”
SANDSTROM: Wow. I think that’s cool. It’s a theatrical and true expression.
MATTHEWS: I learned a lesson that day. I will never ever let that happen again.
MULLER: What, drink on an empty stomach?
MATTHEWS: Messing up the song is really what I mean. But yeah, I also don’t drink gin anymore, and I try not to have an empty stomach because that is pretty disastrous.
SANDSTROM: I imagine being on tour for that long takes a crazy toll on your body and mind.
MATTHEWS: It does. I feel like this tour, even though it is super professional and we have some more creature comforts, I’m feeling the weight of being on the road constantly and not sleeping well. I feel my age in a way that I think the tour has exaggerated the experience.
SANDSTROM: How do you guys get downtime? I know you have your ritual before, but any other indulgences?
MATTHEWS: I’ve been walking. We are in a city, so when I have some time, I try to walk somewhere. This is so sad to say, but I’ve been eating alone. That helps. Privacy is really, really hard to come by. I have found that if I go to a restaurant with my little book and eat some really overpriced sushi, I can have my Jae time. I tried to maintain some pilates, but it’s tough because you go to classes in random fucking cities and it’s so different. I was in a pilates class full of 22-year-old Mormon ballerinas and I was about to die, so that one’s a little more difficult.
SANDSTROM: That is very funny. I went on a work trip to Arkansas one time, and I was doing pilates with a bunch of Arkansas housewives who wore bright orange. It is different city to city.
MATTHEWS: I feel like you get used to your teacher too, and then having to figure out this one night stand with a different teacher—I don’t love that. I have really tight hamstrings and I just need my girl because she gets that.
SANDSTROM: I always want to know what people eat on tour because some people eat crazy.
MULLER: I’ve been eating pretty bad. And Jae, you’re not helping. You went to McDonald’s at midnight and got everybody chicken nuggets.
MATTHEWS: I really like chicken nuggets. Chicken’s something new in my life. I was a vegetarian for most of my childhood, and so I’ve just introduced chicken and wow. McDonald’s chicken nuggets? Chef’s kiss.
SANDSTROM: I don’t know if I’m the first person to ask you this, but how’s touring post-breakup?
MATTHEWS: It was really, really hard at first. Our first tour after the breakup was technically Coachella in 2024. That was really a learn by fire situation. I was a mess. I cried every day. It was tough. I think now we have really figured out a system. Gus and I care about one another and we respect each other, so I think we prioritize trying to maintain a professional relationship that serves Boy Harsher. I always answer this and I feel like I never hear Gus’s response.
MULLER: Well, I mean, you’re having fun. Jae’s having fun. Everyone’s having fun.
MATTHEWS: Oh my god.
MULLER: I think Jae’s having a lot of fun this trip. No?
MATTHEWS: Why don’t you talk about the breakup? Don’t talk about me.
MULLER: I guess having something to do just kind of normalized it. Yeah, we went on this crazy Coachella tour, and I mean, your mom had just died.
MATTHEWS: It was the one year anniversary of her death, the first Coachella night. So that is also why I cried. My life changed drastically in a very small span of time, and I had to learn how to adjust.
SANDSTROM: Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for answering that. I don’t know if it was rude, but—
MATTHEWS: No, I mean, so much of the album is about heartbreak.
MULLER: And we’re on the album cover.
MATTHEWS: Yeah, exactly. This is the first time that Gus and I allowed our physical form to be so forefront. We’ve never really been in music videos or album artwork because I think we want to demonstrate this level of resilience. We really want to present Boy Harsher as this thing that could have easily just evaporated because we were going through so much, but we didn’t want that to happen.
SANDSTROM: When you guys are on tour, do you find time to write together or think about future stuff?
MATTHEWS: I can’t write. Oh, wait, Gus doesn’t agree.
MULLER: Well, it depends. I think we’ve gotten better at it. I think we got better at laptop art. We went on a tour last summer. We went to Tasmania. We were working in the studio on our days off.
MATTHEWS: We were invited to Dark Mofo. The thing about Tasmania is, when you go over there, you have to be there for a couple days to acclimate. And we worked in the most beautiful studio on the best FKA twigs remix ever that never saw the light of day.
SANDSTROM: Oh, you got to put that out. That sounds good.
MATTHEWS: We’ve got to leak it. But if we have days off, then studio days are really fun because you’re already exercising those muscles while performing every night, and then you just get really inspired by literally watching people respond to the elements of your music.
SANDSTROM: Final question: what’s your favorite song to play live and your least favorite song to play live, and why?
MULLER: Favorite song has been “Break Me” off the new record. My least favorite song to play is “Motion.”
MATTHEWS: “Motion” is a fan favorite song, and we’ve never played it live. It’s on Country Girl, so that’s a 2017 or ’18 release. Gus is a total grump when we play it. I think my favorite song, which was surprising, is a song on the new album called “Coming Home.” The first night we did that in Hudson, New York, I cried while I was singing it, but not out of delirium or anything. I suddenly had this surge of like, “Wow, I did it. We did it.” It’s a really fun song to play live because I sing about how I am suicidal, I was about to kill myself, and then it has such a ramp up that I think you can feel the joy. It’s very anthemic. My least favorite—that is tough. New songs are hard for me because I’m like, “Am I going to fuck this up?” We tried to do “Falling” the other night and I’m like, “Oh my god, don’t forget.” I’m just crazy anxious. Sometimes “Pain” is really hard for me to play live.
SANDSTROM: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: But sometimes it’s the best song ever. It drops, people are screaming like we’re the fucking Beatles, and then “Pain” starts and I just have this weird sense, like I’m just so sad or flat while people are still in it. This is going to be a weird comparison, but it’s almost like having sex with someone you don’t know.
SANDSTROM: I think I understand what you mean.
MATTHEWS: There is something enjoyable about it, but you’re missing that intimacy. And not everyone does this, but I certainly have sex for intimacy.
SANDSTROM: Right. So it’s almost like discovery, that song?
MATTHEWS: Or it’s like a dissociation or something. When I don’t feel the vibe, it’s probably because it’s a little bit of a dissociative experience, and maybe that’s what I’m reacting to.
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